Sunday, August 31, 2008

Firebrand Malema plays peacemaker

Say it with a sting.....

Nkosana Lekotjolo Published:Aug 29, 2008

Allegations of fraudulent nominations caused strife

FIERY ANC Youth League leader Julius Malema has managed to broker a truce between rival factions competing for the party chair at its Northern Cape provincial conference.

The conference, which was supposed to kick off in Kuruman on Tuesday , has been delayed by allegations of fraud in the nomination process and overshadowed by violent clashes between the supporters of rival leaders, John Block, the provincial chairman, and Neville Mompati, the ANC’s provincial secretary.

Proceedings finally started at midnight on Wednesday after the intervention of Malema and others.

The conference was still under way last night. Malema, who was dispatched to Kuruman on the instructions of the ANC’s national executive committee, told The Times yesterday he had held separate discussions with the two rival candidates — and that they had agreed to put their differences aside to ensure that the conference was a success.

Malema said he told both Block and Mompati that they needed to redeem themselves because they had caused a lot of pain and ‘‘embarrassment” to the ANC.

‘‘ I was frank enough with the comrades to tell them what they did not want to hear. I asked them why were they dividing the province instead of raising their grievances in the conference.

‘‘I told them that the only apology they can now give to the ANC was that they should ensure that they deliver a peaceful conference.”

He said the major stumbling blocks to the smooth running of the conference were the allegations of fraudulent nominations from branch level as well as complications around the verification of the credentials of the voting delegates.

These had since been resolved.

Sunday Times

Comments by Sonny

Julius Malema; Peacemaker, Shitstirrer or shot-firer.

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Comments: (38)View Latest
DDarko said at Aug 29 2008 5:46AM
Gangsters involved in a turf war. The public must be made aware that the principle objective of any ANC structure is to steal from the people. Therefore membership of these structures is the first step to criminal enrichment.

That is why there so many criminals willing to kill each other to ensure membership.

Vote ANC in 2009??

phreewil said at Aug 29 2008 6:08AM
Ja I know what he said... 'sort your sh*t out or I'll kill you!'...

grant7 said at Aug 29 2008 6:26AM
This could only happen in Africa!
The boy who came to power amidst chaos and brawling and recently incited his gang to 'kill for Zuma' has been sent as a peace maker.

The delegates realize that the trough is nearly empty so it's a case of 'dog eats dog' in the stampede to get their snouts in it.

sechaba30 said at Aug 29 2008 6:49AM
Congratulations Malema. This intervention really shows that you are a true leader. A True leader doesn't listen to these negative afrikaners and boers who want to immigrate to Australia and New Zealand. The must shut up and leave south africa

DDarko said at Aug 29 2008 6:55AM
True leader + bullshit rhetoric = confirmed thief.

Dukeboy said at Aug 29 2008 7:17AM
sechaba30 said at Aug 29 2008 6:49AM
A True leader doesn't listen to these negative afrikaners and boers who want to immigrate to Australia and New Zealand.

How about us souties who don't want to leave?

Is it too much to ask, having taken your lot out of the stone age, that you don't take us all back there!

Chumza said at Aug 29 2008 7:19AM
‘‘ I was frank enough with the comrades to tell them what they did not want to hear. I asked them why were they dividing the province instead of raising their grievances in the conference.

What rubbish, when this idiot and his blind worshippers have succeeded in creating two factions of the ANC.

The_Homicidal_Maniac said at Aug 29 2008 7:25AM
Malema either has a split personality, is an utter baffoon, or has very short term memory. Or worse, all of the above.

Not long ago he repeatedly declared publicly he would kill for Zuma and incite chaos should the trial not go his way.
‘I told them that the only apology they can now give to the ANC was that they should ensure that they deliver a peaceful conference.”

"..they had caused a lot of pain and ‘‘embarrassment” to the ANC."
is it just me or there is a tonne of irony in these statements.South Africas' political jester never ceases to amaze

goproteasgo said at Aug 29 2008 7:31AM
boring, go back to sleep malema, moron

Meiki said at Aug 29 2008 7:37AM
Well done Cde, that is the true spirit of an ANC cadre...openness and not have done good. keep it up

Svegubbe said at Aug 29 2008 7:47AM
Bring me my machine gun and let us kill for Zuma because both Block and Mompati needed to redeem themselves, they caused a lot of pain and ‘‘embarrassment” to the ANC.

pickedlast said at Aug 29 2008 7:54AM
"Malema said he told both Block and Mompati that they needed to redeem themselves because they had caused a lot of pain and ‘‘embarrassment” to the ANC."

Said the pot to the kettle

Wonder said at Aug 29 2008 8:10AM
Too little too late!

bokfan said at Aug 29 2008 8:12AM
If malema continues in this role it may indicate that he is growing up. However, I doubt it and am convinced that he will remain the party's blunt instrument in perpetuity.

beuzana said at Aug 29 2008 8:17AM
The national leadership were misled by people who are in the NEC of the ANC and hails from the North Cape.
If you need the truth you must come to the branch , they have the evidence of the fraudelant activities that were conducted by Block's supporters

phreewil said at Aug 29 2008 8:33AM

Refer to my last comment on

Same applies to you.

PrincessofPeace said at Aug 29 2008 8:39AM
OMG, you mean Malema can actually do this? I'm impressed.

Slindile said at Aug 29 2008 8:51AM
Well done Malema...u done good boi

Khubla-Khan said at Aug 29 2008 8:55AM
C'mon, we all know he went there with advisors... and he said precisely what he was told to say at HQ, verbatim.

Loggenberg said at Aug 29 2008 8:57AM
I`m impressed.

Dukeboy said at Aug 29 2008 9:26AM
Loggenberg said at Aug 29 2008 8:57AM
I`m impressed.

But you so easily are, Loggies.

Loggenberg said at Aug 29 2008 9:27AM
Dukeboy said at Aug 29 2008 9:26AM
Loggenberg said at Aug 29 2008 8:57AM
I`m impressed.

But you so easily are, Loggies.
I don`t like Malema but one have to give credit where it`s due.

Khubla-Khan said at Aug 29 2008 9:34AM
Loggenberg said at Aug 29 2008 9:27AM

Loggz mtshana, don't fall for this crap. This fool probably got there and threatened to kill both Blok ad Mompati. Surely that would get them to get the conference under way.

geanann said at Aug 29 2008 9:37AM
Very good comrade, keep the hate speech for the dreaded Mbeki and evil counter-revolutionary forces

phreewil said at Aug 29 2008 10:48AM
You will never be free for as long as you need someone to tell you what to believe in. You will never be free for as long as you blindly follow a movement, verily a cult, solely because you live in the past. Your fears and trepidations of 'white rule' are unfounded and irrational. Sure, you might have memories that trigger an automatic defense mechanism that makes you incapable of trusting pinky. But your emotions are dominated by the past.

Thing is, we don't live in the past. We're here, now.

Pinky is not interested in white rule, in much the same way most rational darkies aren't for exclusive black rule. It's about letting the crackpots that run the ANC, or ANY political party for that matter, know that they can't hijack us as a nation. You're allowing their criminal and immoral behaviour simply because you don't have the balls to be a man and think for yourself. The sooner your rotting generation (black and white) dies out, the better.

pacaveli said at Aug 29 2008 11:06AM
You know the only thing that hampers african unity and stability is political selfishness. Africa why can't you unite for the benefit of your beloved children? Africa what hope do you give to your children where there is genocide in sudan, where there is political and economic instability in zimbabwe?

sears said at Aug 29 2008 11:13AM
It is easy to make a saint out of a libertine than a prude or Pharisees

sotheysay said at Aug 29 2008 12:07PM
Dukeboy said Is it too much to ask, having taken your lot out of the stone age, that you don't take us all back there!

Why do you keep on sayin "us" "we" , first of all how old are you to have been there during the stone age. You did shit. All those old bags did was enslave our ancestors and looted all the natural resourses , greedy bastards and now you cry about corruption in the ANC... Why can't people just the common in all human beings without regard to race of colour. If black people ahd oppressed whites for years and the whites gained freedom and ruled, they'll will be doing the same things. Its human nature. White eople can relax and seem not so corrupt 'cause they've have been doing this for centuries after all, this is English ..corruption, fraud, bribes etc

phreewil said at Aug 29 2008 12:47PM

It's interesting to note that, according to you and your type, it's human nature to rape, murder, pillage and plunder. That's probably why Duke uses the terms 'us' and 'you', to 'us' that's not human nature.

Mommacyndi said at Aug 29 2008 2:35PM

I will kill for a bit of peace and quiet.

whizzkid said at Aug 29 2008 2:39PM
"Malema said he told both Block and Mompati that they needed to redeem themselves because they had caused a lot of pain and ‘‘embarrassment” to the ANC."

How this moegoe can say this to a fellow SENIOR comrade with a straight face is beyond me!

McCainsweets said at Aug 29 2008 3:14PM
Big ups to malema. I don't care what you say,but we all know how eveil the aprtheid regime was. At least these guys dont send hits and bomb malls. You want to tell me that killing is better than steling? Stop harasing the ANC because of your stupidity. They are doing a slow but good job. In every sky, there will always be a less bright star. It does not mean it's not glowing. ANC shall conquer. To my white brothers: I am not being apologetic, i'm just stating facts (I would better steal than kill)

Iamgone said at Aug 29 2008 3:56PM
Now if you have to send the kids to the party to tell the grown ups how to behave, then you know you are sitting with serious trouble. Its even worse if the grown ups listen to the kids

grant7 said at Aug 30 2008 6:07AM
"Malema plays peacemaker.."
Does this mean just chaaf-chaaf?

phreewil said at Aug 30 2008 6:27AM

What is the purpose of comparing the current leadership to the past? The argument that it's now a better life for all is moot as any party that comes in now can only pick up where the ANC left off and improve on it. Which I daresay won't be too difficult.

You justify it to yourself with the infant attitude of '...well he did it so why can't I?...', and from your standpoint, who knows, it's probably justifiable.

But is this it? Is this all you're going to be content with? Sub-standard governance? Complete disregard for human dignity and life? You speak of the atrocities inflicted on your race over the past few centuries but you fail to honour their suffering by squandering your inheritance.

Let's face it, you're not going to let go anytime soon. You're like a child in a toy shop. This is your entire world and you have no concept of togetherness of humanity. Is oppression to blame for this? Maybe.

It still confuses me the way you rant on about how much you hate pinky. How much you profess to not want anything to do with him or his kind. But oh how you lust for his goodies. The Blue Label. The BMW. The gold chains and the penthouse. The suits, the shoes, the food. Tell me, why is it that the one race you detest so much is the one race you aspire so hard to be like?

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but don't treat me like a dumbfuck. You and I both know the apartheid regime was run by a bunch of kaffir boers, Afrikaans morons who us souties probably hate more than you do. I am not him. See? no comb in my sock. And I can say with, not wif.

Loose the attitude chum and you'll make more friends.

BraTabs said at Aug 30 2008 9:59AM
Malema u got too much leisure time ever since u were elected.

it wouldn't be a bad idea to use this time to enrol for Political Edu 101, that u been preaching.

u just like your uncle Zuma, keep changing spots and pleasing crowd.

Dukeboy said at Aug 30 2008 7:03PM
sotheysay said at Aug 29 2008 12:07PM
All those old bags did was enslave our ancestors and looted all the natural resourses , greedy bastards and now you cry about corruption in the ANC...

Apologies for missing this comment - and the late response thereto.

What natural resources, sotheysay? You mean all the minerals that lay in the ground undiscovered and oblivious to the black of the time?

Or do you refer to the vast square kilometres of farmland producing crops to feed both the local population, with enough excess to sell to neighbouring territories.

Ah, you say, but had we been able to use cocopans and tractors things would have been different.

Good point, sotheysay. But Europe didn't have these things prior to the industrial revolution. But they did have the wheel - upon which cocopans and tractors were designed and developed. Care to discuss the "African" invention of the iron horse which opened up the continent to commercial and industrial viability?

Slavery? The least said about slavery the better. But we might just mention that blacks, working on the development of the continent, were paid, housed, fed and medicated.

Which led to the necessity of an infrastructure in which other blacks were employed.

Would you like to compare that with the slavery of blacks perpetrated by other black tribes?

Here's something for you to ponder. Despite your ability to procreate, had it not been for white intervention, you'd be an endangered species.

Malaria, sleeping sickness, bilharzia, blackwater fever and other waterborne diseases, crocodile and lion kills, snakebites and tribal wars would have made you as rare as hens teeth.

So how about saying thank you, whitey. Thanks for bringing your skills, building cities with potable water, electricity, roads and transport, farm and mine implements, et al.

Not forgetting European syle clothes, shoes, cellphones and BMW's, all of which you aspire to.

And let's not forget that this whitey "greed" now has you outnumbering us by 6:1 in SA and probably 10000:1 on a continent basis.

Is it really unreasonable if 'we' get a little miffed when you take the above (and more) and instead of making improvements and progress 'you lot' make every effort to take the country back to digging holes in the ground for iron-ore with a few crude furnaces for production.

And what do you do with this 'new, magic metal'? Make ploughshears, make railway lines? Make engines and transport?

No. You make spearheads and pangas for your incessant tribal wars.

Does that answer your questions, sotheysay?

zuluboybob said at Aug 31 2008 2:08AM
more bananas please....(must be running out... surely...)

Sunday Times

Labels: , ,

Zuma warns ANC to stop violence

Say it with a sting.....

Moipone Malefane Published:Aug 31, 2008

Party wars: Differences flare across the provinces as members sow seeds of division ahead of next year’s national election.

ANC president Jacob Zuma has intervened to heal rifts within the ruling alliance after the party’s youth league issued a blistering attack this week on his deputy and strongest internal rival, Kgalema Motlanthe.

Opening an ANC election workshop in Johannesburg, Zuma decried widespread infighting among party members, warning that it tarnished the moral image of the party ahead of next year’s election. He urged members to shun “factionalism” and to end the violence that has marred the race for electable positions in provincial and national party structures.

Shortly before Zuma spoke, the ANC Youth League issued a vitriolic statement condemning ANC deputy president Motlanthe.

Motlanthe is widely seen as the likely alternative for president if Zuma’s criminal prosecution takes him out of the race.

Motlanthe castigated the youth league in a newspaper interview this week, saying it was undermining party positions and exceeding its authority.

In addition to his threat to “kill” for Zuma, youth league leader Julius Malema has been pushing for an early election to get rid of President Thabo Mbeki, for new economic policy directions and for a massive cabinet overhaul.

In this week’s statement, the youth league suggested Motlanthe had been ineffective as secretary- general and was acting without a party mandate in his criticism of their statements.

“In our last national executive committee meeting, the ANCYL was very clear in expressing our concern over the manner in which (Motlanthe) has engaged us through the media. Yet he continues to play like a paragon of political correctness. This is shocking, as the deputy president went public to defy the decision of the ANC national executive committee on his deployment to cabinet,” the league said in a statement signed by spokesman Floyd Shivambu.

Malema was elected after a tumultuous conference in Bloemfontein, where party elders were outraged at reports of fighting, drinking and delegates dropping their trousers to insult rivals.

Provincial ANC meetings to prepare for the selection of election candidates have been marred by violence in at least three provinces and one party member has died of injuries sustained in a brawl.

In the Western Cape, ANC provincial secretary Mcebisi Skwatshwa was stabbed at a branch meeting.

In the Northern Cape, which held its provincial conference last week, a member died in hospital after he was beaten up and several others were injured. In Mpumalanga, members were also assaulted ahead of the conference which was held earlier this month.

Zuma warned that such violence was destroying the ANC’s image and could discourage voters from going to the polls. He urged members to avoid claims of ownership of the party or its policies, saying it encouraged destructive factionalism.

The workshop was attended by ANC leaders as well as South African Communist Party and Congress of South African Trade Union members.

Zuma said the three alliance partners should campaign together to stress the achievements rather than the failings of the alliance government since 1994.

He said that, while campaigning, the ANC must speak out about how it plans to resolve the issues of crime and HIV/Aids, but he warned that the greatest challenge would be getting people out to vote.

Zuma defeated Mbeki in the election of a new party president in December largely on the basis of factional support encouraged by the youth league, Cosatu and the SACP. The youth league reaffirmed its support this week, renewing calls to abandon criminal proceedings against Zuma.

Sunday Times

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Comments: (33)View Latest
zuluboybob said at Aug 31 2008 2:12AM
just when i thought it was not possible.... "pass the bananas, this way....."

ShoeLace said at Aug 31 2008 2:39AM
Look who's talking. Father of factionalism himself. Well its more like chick are coming home to roost JZ. Live with it.

chickenrunner said at Aug 31 2008 3:48AM
Zuma warns ANC to stop violence, while his supporters march on police stations to save his fat arse - what an idiot!

chickenrunner said at Aug 31 2008 3:50AM
Headline should read: Zuma warns his ANC supporters to stop enciting violence - fat chance of that happening...

zebra said at Aug 31 2008 5:43AM
Bring me my machine gun!

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

zebra said at Aug 31 2008 5:44AM
What a f==ked up country SA is.

benbza said at Aug 31 2008 6:07AM
Looks like it's the beginning of the end for the scum as it dies by the sword it lived by - but they'll take us down with them, so let's vote with our feet, NOW. We have no vote - and it takes too long to use the voting system - BUT we the minority pay the majority of TAXES and can cripple the scum who have no income but ours! We have the power to withhold taxes from a corrupt state. It's time to orchestrate this now. Our true hero is the lone South African who is taking the regime to court for disbanding the Scorpions and he reminded us all of our power when he made this comment this week. We won't toyi toyi or necklace them, tempting as their lessons are to us, but we can deposit our taxes in trust and bring the scum down.
Better than raising the heartbeat in frustration day after day perhaps - if some of us don't do something soon we'll be tempted to borrow convict Zuma's machine gun and remove the infestation by hand - just as the ANC terrorists did!

DDarko said at Aug 31 2008 6:37AM
ANCYL turns on Motlanthe
30/08/2008 22:26 - (SA)

# Motlanthe 'attacking ANCYL'
# SACP: Drop charges against Zuma
# Recall Mbeki - ANCYL
# ANCYL to back Zuma in court

Caiphus Kgosana and Makhudu Sefara

Johannesburg - The divisions within the ANC faction that threw its weight behind embattled party leader Jacob Zuma have spilt into the open.

The ANC Youth League (ANCYL), considered kingmakers in the party, has told ANC deputy president Kgalema Motlanthe not to behave as if Zuma is "no more".

Motlanthe's face-off with the ANCYL is the clearest form of division in the camp, which was united in its bid to oust President Thabo Mbeki as ANC leader.,,2-7-12_2385540,00.html
What do south african people need more to see that the criminals that are the ANC are out of control, and will plunge our country into chaos to protect a blatant unrepentant guilty criminal?

When will the people realize that that the ANC criminal organisation had no intention of governing beyond the establishment of criminal structures aimed at enriching themselves?

Vote ANC in 2009??

DDarko said at Aug 31 2008 6:41AM
Kudos to the so called education minister for managing to exacerbate an already sensitive matter:

Anger over Satanism lesson
29/08/2008 14:56 - (SA)

Alet Rademeyer, Beeld

Johannesburg - The parents of some of the Grade 11 pupils of Dr EG Jansen High School on the East Rand are upset about the life orientation syllabus, which provides 17 pages of elaborate information about Satanism in a textbook.

A parent fumed on Thursday over the "absolute rubbish" to which pupils were exposed in the curriculum.,,2-7-1442_2384568,00.html

Vote ANC in 2009??

Svegubbe said at Aug 31 2008 8:24AM
Let us kill for Zuma, let us kill those who are violent!
A way to stop ANC violence ...

debecker said at Aug 31 2008 8:24AM
remember what about riding the Tiger. That should have been done months ago

pws80 said at Aug 31 2008 8:49AM
"Zuma decried widespread infighting among party members, warning that it tarnished the moral image of the party"


Someone buy zuma a dictionary so he can look up the definition of "moral".

hkgkboet said at Aug 31 2008 9:05AM
Keep it up ANC.You are rocking my Sunday.You are now totally exposed as an inept bunch of palookers that have only one aim;More trough time.

Sennzo said at Aug 31 2008 9:18AM
It is the fight for a position in the new gravy train Msholozi. The greed is too great. Everyone wants their hand in the pie. Your speeches and appeals are not going to stop it. Only getting the people with the right character in leadership positions will.

The image of the ANC is already tarnished. So, the job is to reverse that and not prevent the tarnishing. It has already happened.

Rather than people staying at home and not voting, probably your biggest problem is that people will go out and vote but no longer for the ANC but for any of the opposition parties.

The ANC has never looked this bad and after voting for it on the last three occassions, my vote is going elsewhere this time around.

mshiniboy said at Aug 31 2008 9:28AM
ShoeLace said at Aug 31 2008 2:39AM
Look who's talking. Father of factionalism himself. Well its more like chick are coming home to roost JZ. Live with it.

He is a victim of Mbeki's factionalism.

MikeC said at Aug 31 2008 9:30AM
I was willing to give Zuma the benefit of the doubt, but every day that goes by proves me wrong. He is either very stupid or assumes all ANC voters are.

He NOW says 'stop violence' ONLY because it will have a negative impact on ANC votes and NOT that it's wrong. He and his cabal only make these calls in their own interests - like 'redeploying' premiers so they can put in their own people, i.e. those they can manipulate.

I really hope that voters can see through this group that's hijacked the ANC.

mshiniboy said at Aug 31 2008 9:34AM
benbza said at Aug 31 2008 6:07AM

Hyenasnlaugh but they do not know what they are laughing at.That is how stupid you are the word terrorist is a word that came up with pink people.But look at the unrest you pink faces have done to the world now if I were you I would be very scared to use that word considering the above mentioned.But I am not suprised maybe the ghosts are luring you to craziness like your brotybrother sword boy.

mshiniboy said at Aug 31 2008 9:40AM
pws80 said at Aug 31 2008 8:49AM

Pink people think like robots and they are so stubbon.How many votes did Zuma get in Pulukwane and who started hating him for that.How many people were at Zuma's trial and how many people went on strike to have his charges droped.Now tell me where is factionalism there? please read your dictionary and find the definations of words before your put your filthy pink fingers on the keeboard of computers to type rubbish.

hkgkboet said at Aug 31 2008 9:51AM
mshiniboy said at Aug 31 2008 9:40AM

please read your dictionary and find the definations of words before your put your filthy pink fingers on the keeboard of computers to type rubbish.

After reading your pearls of wisdom One can only come to this conclusion.Machinegunboy,we know who you are and you must face justice and go before the courts.If found guilty you and Shaik can play dominoes in hospital together.

pws80 said at Aug 31 2008 10:12AM
mshiniboy said at Aug 31 2008 9:40AM

Hey doos, I talked about moral, not factionalism. I don't have to talk about factionalism, as Zuma, Mbeki, Motlanthe, etc, have already talked about it and admitted to it.

The "moral" Zuma:

Accept Bribes
Avoid paying taxes
Promote violence against your fellow man
Screw your buddies AIDS infested daughter, while married to a whole harem of wives
Try to subvert the law, with numerous trips to Mauritius to prevent evidence being presented at your trial.

Perhaps, pinkfoot, you need to think and read before you type.

If I was a racist I would be celebrating the failures of the ANC.

More blacks dying of AIDS than ever before
The highest unemployment of blacks in decades
Blacks killing blacks a la Xenophobia
Millions starving

unfortunately for you, my racist countryman, the above make me sick to my stomach. What surprises me though is it is acceptable to your black leaders.

Just how dumb are you to accept this?

pws80 said at Aug 31 2008 10:14AM
mshiniboy said at Aug 31 2008 9:40AM

Team sent out to calm Cape’s stormy factions

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha. Doos

phreewil said at Aug 31 2008 10:21AM

How were the whores? Doesn't your fat stomach get in the way?

marklab said at Aug 31 2008 11:25AM
Mr Zuma you tarnished the image of the ANC long time ago. What you see today is the fruit of the seeds you and your cohorts have sown over the years.

et2bru said at Aug 31 2008 12:03PM
"Zuma said the three alliance partners should campaign together to stress the achievements rather than the failings of the alliance government since 1994."

That should keep it brief. More time for the entertainment section and the after party.

Loggenberg said at Aug 31 2008 12:16PM
The same Zuma should know that he`s hit song(Umshini wam) motivates violence.

geanann said at Aug 31 2008 1:14PM
He wants party csdres to direct their anger towards non-alliance members and counter-revolutionary forces.

It is bad to slake their bloodthirst on their comrades

geanann said at Aug 31 2008 3:12PM
There are now three ANC/Alliance factions:
- Mbeki faction
- Zuma/Mantashe/Malema/Vavi/Nzimandi faction (I believe this crowd are led by Mantashe and Zuma is just a figurehead.
- Motlhante/Phosa/Sexwale/Rhamaphosa faction

Some interesting battles ahead. Much blood to be shed.

alice37 said at Aug 31 2008 4:35PM
mshiniboy said at Aug 31 2008 9:40AM
pws80 said at Aug 31 2008 8:49AM

"Pink people think like robots and they are so stubbon.How many votes did Zuma get in Pulukwane(Polokwane) and who started hating him for that.How many people were at Zuma's trial and how many people went on strike to have his charges droped (dropped). Now tell me where is factionalism there? (Huh?) please read your dictionary and find the definations (definitions) of words before your put your filthy pink fingers on the keeboard (keyboard) of computers to type rubbish."

Suggest you do the same and get the correct spelling of such big words right

Pot calling the kettle "pink"?

et2bru said at Aug 31 2008 4:36PM
Never did figure the logic of having a communist, trade union leader on your board. Conflict of interest and such obvious imagery (Mantashe - Samancor)
But once a grasp of Jackal logic is gleaned, who gives a dam anyway.

rorii said at Aug 31 2008 5:46PM
Too little too late, what has this big airhead been waiting for? If this is the best the ANC can do then the party has no leadership.

view-from-doc said at Aug 31 2008 5:53PM
the anc is reaping what they sow....which is corruption, lies, stupidity....they use to say mbeki did not want criticism....and now they r doing the same thing........the anc will soon implode......and thats sad considering its long history and leaders in the past....

whizzkid said at Aug 31 2008 6:11PM
Well let's have a look see - Under the leadership of Mandela and Mbeki, the ANC was united and a force to be reckoned with and highly regarded. Ever since Zuma took over, the ANC leadership has been riddled with opportunism, thuggery and contempt for the constitution. Leaders trying to steer it in the direction of good morals and respect for our country on the moral compass are increasingly being chastised by delinquent imebicles. Zuma himself cannot control, lead and provide guidance to the party and his members. Everyone has become the self appointed spokesperson of the ANC. I say he should step down and let a capable leader lead this historically great organisation. He just does not have what it takes. He has proven that he is not leadership material.

soekies said at Aug 31 2008 9:15PM

"...should campaign together to stress the achievements rather than the failings of the alliance government since 1994."

...then we can send all these 'achievements' to the people of SA by means of a one line SMS!

Sunday Times

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Sexwale loses millions

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Marcia Klein Published:Aug 31, 2008

Mvela bosses say goodbye to R1.1bn thanks to market and earnings woes.

Tokyo Sexwale and other directors of Mvelaphanda Group and Mvela Resources have lost more than R1.1-billion between them in just a few months as Mvela share prices and earnings came under continued market pressure.

Sexwale has lost R430-million since the end of March, though his shares in Mvela Group and Mvela Resources are still worth R1.17-billion. He also has various other sources of wealth.

Two other Mvela directors, Mark Willcox and Mikki Xayiya, have lost R172.4-million and R86.9-million, respectively. But Willcox is still worth R460-million and Xayiya R230-million based on their company shareholdings.

Mvela Group CEO Yolanda Cuba’s wealth dropped by R1.7-million to R4.47-million, based on her Mvela shareholding.

The declining fortunes of Mvela directors match the share price declines of Mvela Group and Mvela Resources, which have been under pressure since March.

Company results, released this week, explain why.

Mvela Group reported a net annual loss of R1.7-billion, down from a profit of R1.4-billion in the previous year, largely due to “dramatic swings in the market values of Mvela Group’s investments”.

Its investment in Absa Group alone was down by more than R1-billion. Other strategic investments that required writing down were Group Five and Vox Telecom.

The share prices of Mvela Group’s investments dropped by between 17% and 38% in the year to June.

Fair value adjustment and net loss from investments was R1.6-billion.

Mvela Group’s fortunes are linked closely to the stock market because it is an investment company, specifically in financial services, consumer services, construction and infrastructure, non-mining resources and energy, and telecoms, media and technology.

The latter sectors have been of particular interest to the group over the past year.

It has bought 25.5% of Avusa, the owner of the Sunday Times, for R1.3- billion.

It is also in discussions to buy Telkom, and bought 12.3% of Vox Telecom.

Mvelaserve, which houses Mvela’s operating subsidiaries, improved its performance.

The company, which is involved in facilities management, security, catering, cleaning, gaming and franchising, showed a small improvement in operating profit.

In the coming year, the Mvela Group will focus on capital preservation and maximising shareholder returns, it said.

It will continue to make acquisitions and these areas of focus should, over time, counteract the volatility of markets.

Things looked better at Mvela Resources, the mining investment and exploration company, which reported a R185.3-million profit, from a prior-year loss of R2-billion.

The results largely reflect its investments in Northam Platinum and Trans Hex.

A highlight of the year was the approval of the Booysendal transaction. Mvela now has a controlling 62.8% share of Northam, “taking it a step closer to being an operating mining company”.

Booysendal will now be developed for the benefit of Northam and Mvela shareholders.

Mvela Resources director Lazarus Zim has lost a massive R307-million in his investment in Mvela Resources, but he is still worth R827.8- million based solely on his investment in this company.

Mvela directors have a large number of directorships between them. According to Who Owns Whom, Sexwale is a director of 18 companies, Willcox 28 and Xayiya 19.

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Comments: (15)View Latest
zuluboybob said at Aug 31 2008 2:14AM

ShoeLace said at Aug 31 2008 2:43AM
Don't worry Tokyo.You'll get it all back from the gvt, somehow. Thats where you got it from in the first place.

chickenrunner said at Aug 31 2008 3:51AM
Soon he will be looking for a cushy job at the ANC head office.

DDarko said at Aug 31 2008 6:28AM

MaleLeo said at Aug 31 2008 6:53AM

No....he got most of that money from his late dad, who was a thug in SOWETO then. I dare not say what money that was , you wanna guess ?

DDarko said at Aug 31 2008 7:31AM
Business is so fickle.

DDarko said at Aug 31 2008 7:32AM
MaleLeo said at Aug 31 2008 6:53AM

Do say...

debecker said at Aug 31 2008 8:26AM
he is not a businessman and even with all the help he got.

donorfatigued said at Aug 31 2008 11:44AM

et2bru said at Aug 31 2008 12:50PM
Infantile reporting. Lacks any resemblance to anything analytical. Tabloid crap.

meerkat said at Aug 31 2008 5:14PM
Easy come, easy go. He was the main criminal in Gauteng when he was premier and any "empire" built on trash would someday come crumbling down.

rorii said at Aug 31 2008 5:43PM
How did he make those millions, this is one opportunist that must never be allowed to run for the presidency. This fronting token owns no more than 15% of Mvelaphanda, the rest is owned by whites. Thanks to Chris Hani's assassination, Tokyo got all the glory for putting up a crying act for TV cameras. I see the two opportunists, Tokyo and Ramaphosa, are slowly making their way back into politics, whites are done using them to secure govt and private sector contracts and the two tokens know it.

MaleLeo said at Aug 31 2008 6:53AM

He attempted to chase the Gauteng drug lords and they responded by exposing his drug dealing father, he suddenly stopped the witch hunt.

whizzkid said at Aug 31 2008 6:03PM
He will make it all back before the end of 2010. The market works in cycles. What this paper has failed to state is how much growth his company has made since it was established.

chickenrunner said at Aug 31 2008 6:23PM
Does this mean the ANC is bankrupt...

soekies said at Aug 31 2008 9:05PM

He drank himself full of the gravy!

Easy come, easy go!

...I know somebody, who know somebody, who know somebody who scored cocaine from Sexwale, for many years!

His day will come, watch this space...

Labels: ,

R10,000 fine for ‘whites only’ club

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Biénne Huisman

Published:Aug 28, 2008

A LITTLE Karoo club has been slapped with a R10,000 fine for refusing admission to four black students.

Vastrap, a few kilometres outside the town of Ashton, must also change its entrance policy, publish apologies in newspapers and cover legal costs, the equality court ruled yesterday.

Magistrate Francois van Deventer found that the club was, “without a doubt”, guilty of unfair discrimination.

A portion of the fine will be donated to “ promoting diversity” at Stellenbosch University.

The four youngsters turned away were Lee Roy Frans, 23, Taamba Iithete, 23, Danmur Lucas, 22, and Megan Rossouw, 23.

They were part of a group of 12 students who went to Vastrap during a team-building weekend in January last year.

Only the white students were allowed entry.

“ My cover charge was refused without explanation. It was only when three other [student representative council] members’ entry fees were refused that I started suspecting that we were refused access based on race,” said Rossouw.

Sunday Times

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Comments: (72)View Latest
Hairy43 said at Aug 28 2008 1:29AM
How much did the Black Lawyers Association get fined for blocking whites from attending there meeting.

Not a, my.

ironfist08 said at Aug 28 2008 8:09AM
As much as i don't like to comment on racist issues, Hairy43, i gotta agree with you on that one.

riani said at Aug 28 2008 8:32AM
I agree Hairy43, but this is SA remember they can do anything they like based on race and they get away with it. But I am not a cry baby what doesn't kill me just makes me stronger. I am glad that I don't get brownie points based on my skin colour.

ndlovufe said at Aug 28 2008 9:08AM
These racists are lucky they are fined. We should behead them publicly. There are creches which still refuse admission of black children on the instructions of the white children's parents.

And when they start behaving like the Waterkloof four they get the best lawyers money can buy.

The Waterkloof four should have been the first to be publicly beheaded.

Mommacyndi said at Aug 28 2008 9:57AM
Xman said at Aug 28 2008 9:53AM

And you think WE have issues.

Comments by Sonny

Who is racist; the White Cock or the Black Hen?


Scorpions probe R1.6bn housing loan rip-off

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South Africa
31 August 2008

National Credit Regulator hands over case after uncovering a ruthless scheme that preyed on cash-strapped homeowners, getting them to sign over their homes and reducing them to tenants, writes Buddy Naidu.

Liquidators are heading to court in a bid to block the repossession and enforced sale of at least 200 homes caught up in a R1.6-billion housing scandal.

Two Pretoria-based companies, which have since been liquidated, are at the centre of the scheme — deemed to be fraudulent by the National Credit Regulator (NCR) — that targeted cash-strapped and credit-listed South Africans.

More than 800 home loans, facilitated by Reverse Mortgage Company (RMC) and Asset Management Specialist (AMS), were obtained through various banks between 2003 and 2007.

Loan applicants obtained extra cash by unknowingly selling their properties to a buyer connected to the two companies.

However, the homes were then allegedly transferred to a shelf company or a trust, and the cash from the new home loan would then be split between the buyer and the companies.

The property owner was then effectively reduced to the status of a tenant, having to repay the monthly bond fee to one of the facilitating companies.

However, the repayments were not always transferred to the bank that had provided the home loan, and as the arrears mounted, these banks moved in to repossess the properties.

RMC’s major shareholder is Pretoria-based Johannes Petrus Harris, whose company was liquidated last year.

It was the collapse of his company, involving 600 homes and loans worth R1.2-billion, that triggered the regulator’s probe into AMS.

In June the NCR obtained an order from the Pretoria High Court blocking the eviction of 330 homeowners who had obtained cash from AMS, a company owned by businessman Bernard Barnard.

In court the regulator labelled the scheme as fraudulent and it was granted an order entitling it to seize files and documents belonging to Absa Bank — one of the four major banks largely responsible for providing the loans.

The two companies were then reported to the National Prosecuting Authority, or Scorpions, for possible further action.

To prevent a repeat of the RMC debacle, the High Court in June authorised lead liquidator Enver Motala to oversee a secret judicial inquiry into the collapse of AMS.

This week the liquidator confirmed that he would be filing at least 180 applications to try to overturn the “blatantly fraudulent” loan agreements and “place the homes back in the hands their rightful owners”.

If such restitution is successful, Motala said monies paid out to the homeowners by AMS may then have to be returned.

“The banks may object to this solution but this is a housing scandal of epic proportions. Unfortunately, it may be too late to help homeowners in the RMC case but in the AMS matter, with the help of the regulator, we have recourse,” Motala said.

AMS boss Barnard, 50, insists that while his home-loan scheme may have been deemed “undesirable” by some, it was not “fraudulent per se”.

“It was a sub-prime market and we merely offered a product that we thought could help people in danger of losing their homes and were unable to raise finance.”

However, he says AMS went belly up because at least 50% of customers did not make their monthly payments, which the company then had to subsidise.

“The second reason is that administration was a nightmare,” he added.

Barnard said it was unfair to label the scheme as fraudulent. “I cannot see anything fraudulent, but my understanding is that it’s possible, from a legal point of view, to be deemed as such.”

He said he “feels terrible” for those in danger of losing their homes but insists that, were it not for his help, “they would have lost it earlier”.

In both cases the companies targeted cash-strapped homeowners who were unable to obtain bank loans because of poor credit ratings or their age.

In some cases the company would “purchase” the house through a guarantor or a “jockey” — that is, someone with a good credit rating.

Most of the victims knew that their homes were being used as security for the loans, but were unaware that their properties had been sold.

Neither did they know that they were now not merely repaying small loans but, rather new, outstanding bonds on their homes.

Motala said that in some instances customers “simply found themselves as tenants in their own homes — now bonded to the hilt with the banks foreclosing on them”.

Jan Augustyn, the manager for investigations and prosecutions with the regulator, confirmed that they had referred both cases to the Scorpions.

“Criminal cases are now being investigated because, on the face of it, these schemes appear to be fraudulent,” Augustyn said.

“Our main focus now is on consumers who stand to lose their homes.”

Comments by Sonny

More reasons why the Scorpions should not be disbanded.

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Mathews Phosa: Whites should be called back

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Sunday, August 31, 2008
'ANC needs to listen to more voices'

Xolani Mbanjwa
August 31 2008 at 03:10PM

Parliament's decision to put the controversial Expropriation Bill on ice was correct because it would have undermined property values, ANC treasurer Mathews Phosa said in Centurion.

Phosa was addressing a conference on poverty, which was organised by the Freedom Front Plus and where welfare organisations and NGOs met to discuss the increasing levels of poverty, in particular among the Afrikaner community.

His comment flies in the face of that made by Public Works Minister Thoko Didiza on Friday.

The minister's office said on Friday it was taken aback by the National Assembly's committee on public works decision to withdraw the bill on the basis that further consultation still needed to take place.

The bill, which has been called unconstitutional by critics, gave the minister far-reaching powers to expropriate property in the public interest.

It occasioned an outcry from landowners, particularly farmers.

Phosa - who was applauded for his comments - called for skilled white former public servants to return to assist the country's fledgling public service and called for more co-operation between black and white farmers.

"As you know we thought deeply about the Expropriation Bill and we, after serious considerations, felt it would not be the correct instrument to speed up the acquisition of land … it became clear for us that market values and the encouragement of co-operation, help and advice from the state would be a better way of promoting the acquisition of land", said Phosa.

He said the ANC-led government would welcome more input on the matter.

"We (ANC) said in Polokwane we are a caring organisation. We don't want to move forward like a gorilla and say we know it all and our word is final. The ANC is listening to more voices on this matter to find a solution which does not unnecessarily undermine the property values of this country," said Phosa.

The ANC treasurer general repeated previous comments he made about an exodus of skilled white public servants after the ANC government took over in 1994 having crippled the public service, leaving it short of essential expertise.

"During the whole process of entering government there are a lot of skills which left the public sector and mainly white skills. You have to tell the inconvenient truth if you want to lead this country. It's a fact that we need to find a way of attracting those skills back to the administration and the public sector. Those skills are very important to ensure that, as government, we work together and have a non-racial public sector.

"We need an efficient and effective government that delivers. At the moment we have the money but we have a problem with the skills levels in the public sector and we need to inject more skills into the public sector so that we sharpen the end point of delivery and implementation. We need to dramatically increase the capacity of the state to deliver," said Phosa.

On the issue of Afrikaner poverty - which the FF+ said has increased by almost 400% - Phosa said "poverty is colourless".

"There's no such thing as white poverty.

"The problem of poverty and unemployment must be addressed holistically by government working with the private sector and NGOs and other stakeholders.

"Together we must find ways of ensuring that when land moves from white hands to black hands there's proper management so that there's skills transfer to the new owners so that productivity continues, jobs are retained and jobs are increased and not lost," said Phosa.

He commended the "unusual act" of being invited by another party to address it as a "renewing the spirit of political reconciliation".

Leader of the FF+, Pieter Mulder, echoed Phosa's overall comments but called for a re-think on affirmative action policies, which he blamed for most of the poverty.

This article was originally published on page 16 of Cape Argus on August 31, 2008


Comments by Sonny

Before there is a plea for Whites to return to the public service and other vital institutions, the playing fields must be levelled out, BEE and other racist equity laws should be scrapped and all men should be declared equal under the law and in the eyes of God.
Only then can we all go forward as true South Africans.
The ANC adversely turned all White males (excepting their white comerades), into second class citizens.
Only then should Whites return to the fold to rectify all the wrongs made during the last fourteen years.
The ANC must rid SA of all exclusion legislation before aqny talks can start.
Posted by Sonny Cox at 8:42 PM 0 comments
Labels: BEE, equity bills., Mathews Phosa, raqcist laws


Drug war terror spreads in Mexico as bodies are dumped in tourist areas

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Chris Ayres in Los Angeles
Eleven decapitated bodies have been found outside the city of Merida on the Yucatan peninsula, heightening fears that Mexico's recent descent into violence has reached even heavily protected tourist areas.

All the bodies showed signs of torture and were tattooed with star signs and the letter “Z”, suggesting that they had fallen victim to the country's growing drug war, which has left more than 2,700 dead so far this year.

Merida is a popular stop-off point for tourists on their way to visit the Mayan pyramids at Chichen Itza. On the other side of the Yucatan peninsula is Cancun, a Las Vegas-style holiday destination popular with US tourists; an hour or so farther south of Cancun is the resort town of Playa del Carmen, where many US hotel chains have built five-star properties.

Perhaps inspired by the insurgency in Iraq, Mexican drug gangs have started to use mass beheadings as a macabre public relations tool.

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In an incident two years ago, several severed heads were rolled across the floor of a nightclub in the southern state of Michoacan. Earlier this week, four decapitated bodies were found in Tijuana, across the border from San Diego.

The aim, according to government officials, is to create “an atmosphere of terror”.

Jose Guzman, a Yucatan state prosecutor, said that the heads from the bodies found in Merida were still missing. “We believe that the executions were an isolated incident and not part of a strategy to destabilise the state,” he added.

Critics say this is wishful thinking. The resurgence of drug overlords in Mexico — along with endemic corruption in the police force and military - has led to a near-nationwide collapse in security. In May, the country's chief of police was murdered and, according to a recent study, Mexico now has more kidnappings than Iraq and Columbia.

So far, Mexico's most notorious drug overlord, Joaquín “Shorty” Guzmán, remains at large. According to popular legend, Mr Guzmán pays $2 million (£1 million) in cash wherever he stays to ensure protection, never uses a mobile phone twice, and once managed to conceal 7.3 tonnes of cocaine in cans of chilli peppers.

In another incident, he paid off a police commander with $1 million in cash and five Dodge Ram SUVs, in exchange for permission to land a cargo plane without interference.

Public outrage over Mexico's soaring crime levels reached a new intensity a fortnight ago after the killing of a boy aged 14 after his businessman father paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in ransom money.

It was later alleged that a corrupt police detective was part of the plot.

The only consolation for Mexicans has been that the drug war had left the tourist industry unaffected. No longer: the discovery of the 11 decapitated bodies on the Yucatan peninsula has already made headlines all over the world.

In addition to those bodies, another decapitated body was found 50 miles to the east of Merida, in a town called Buctzotz. Like the others, it showed signs of torture.

President Calderón responded to Mexico's rapidly deteriorating security situation last week by signing a national security pact, including a promise to purge corrupt police officers.

He said that “a cancer of criminality” had spread across the country, adding: “It's not about looking for who was guilty in the past. We're all responsible.”

Analysts say that this marked an important change of strategy. Since coming to power in 2006 after a contentious election, President Calderón has used the military to chase down drug overlords, a policy that has been criticised for being too one-dimensional. After all, the protection of drug traffickers by the police and military — to many, Joaquín “Shorty” Guzmán is a Robin Hood figure — has made successful prosecutions extremely difficult, if not impossible, even with financial support from the United States.

Have your say

It is really sad that the darkside is taking over countries. If Mexico doesn't get this under control, and quick, travel to their country will turn off like a light bulb. When it comes it will be pretty tramatic. Time is critical on this; it must be dealt with or public opinion will turn on them

A Brock, Palm Springs, USA

Having an uncontrolled border with the U.S. where illegal activities can take place, smuggling drugs, immigration, slaves, promotes this. At some point the money and violence is too much, Mexico will fall into anarchy, there will be no government. Lock the border, save Mexico and the U.S.

Jimmy, Los Angeles, CA,

O'Bama/Biden - The Wizard of Oz Ticket

Given that O'Bama can't give a speech without a teleprompter and Biden can't write his own speech they will now call themselves 'The Wizard of Oz Ticket'.

Pat Mabooty, North Shore Oahu, US

How can any legal resident of the United States read this article and still think we don't need a decent fence at the border? Good fences make good neighbours; especially when there are not common values and cultures.

Simon, Lake Forest, USA

When the presence of law is absent(cops), people must be able to defend and protect themselves and their communities. Without that ability, they are helpless victims and are at the mercy of criminals and outlaws (corrupt cops, drug-lords, the town rapist , etc.) Thank God for the 2nd Amendment.

JamesW, RiversideCA, USA

Don't blame my country for the failures of a corrupt, chaotic government.

Jack, Oklahoma,

Many Asian countries have a strict death penalty law for drug smugglers and works. Unfortunately the US is too limp wristed in its punishment of drug sellers and users.

pug, Studio City, United States

And so history repeats itself. Look back at prohibition -- the same kind of stuff was going on. How much longer are we to have a prohibition on drugs. Legalize them now, stop the war.

Claude, Lexington, KY, USA

Gee Greg from Bremerton, why don't you move to Mexico?? Be fortunate your from a country that allows you to criticize it as much as you do. Oh and John from Edmonton, America doesn't want you uber-liberal Canadians any more than you want us......

Larry, Phoenix, U.S.A.

I agree - send in the Navy Seals
but don't send in the DEA if you want results. They are busy here
busting small time dealers on TV.

Dr Nick, NY, us

As difficult is to accept it, the American societey has a lot of blame. The only reason those criminals in Colombia, Mexico and Asia exist is because they know their product will be consumed in the US. No consumption - no production.

Alberto Genel, Miami, FL

This violence simply moved to Mexico from Colombia when the Mexican Cartels took over the drug smuggling routes. The ONLY solution to this problem is for the US PEOPLE to LEGALIZE drugs. This would require us to take responsibility for the people we love, rather than rely on the DEA. Fat chance.

Lindsay, Wilmington, DE, USA

To Greg from Bremerton
If you don't like it here, do something about it or leave.

james, jerome, usa

Hey! John from Edmonton,
Hate to break it to you, but Canada IS a suburb of the USA. Like it or not, you are part of the grand global skeem. You already have Mexican illegals in your midst. Same problems coming your way...a little later but soon enough.

Duke, Midway, USA

".Apparently these good people are cowards."

Yes, it's amazing isn't it that these same Mexicans who are afraid to confront their problems in their own country are perfectly willing to protest in ours? Who could be proud of a country where they can't find work, because of corruption?

Dewayne Calhoun, ocala, usa

Carol said best 'all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing' ... truth always hurts that is the reason it is so unpopular. It is always easier to blame someone else. I only wish is wasn't the drug use of Americans causing this. That hurts also.

Paladino, Orlando FL, USA

Several people have pointed out that these problems are a result of demand from the US. Several have also suggested that the solution is to legalize drugs, to some degree. That may be appropriate for some drugs. In the meantime, however, just stop consuming drugs. Do it for your own conscience.

Charles, Las Cruces, USA

For all you Americans who think it is just Mexico's problem: Get ready , it's coming this way.

Mikey, West Chciago, USA

The war on drugs is what causes this, no one is killed over the drug trade that is big tabacco or big booze. People are going to do drugs and if the 2 trillion dollar war on drugs as proven anything, its that nothing can be done to stop people from doing drugs.

Steve, Green Bay, USA

If legalizing drugs would end this in our country and in Mexico, then why not legalize murder, speeding, drunk driving, gambling, prostitution, theft, and while you're at it, just empty all the jails since it is such a drain on our economy to keep them in there...what a utopia! Get real!!!!

Gerald Tobey, Troutville, USA

Multiply by three all sentences for crimes committed under the influence, capital punishment after 3 felonies, carry them out, and see what happens to the drug trade. Of course, those people in high places...

Eugene, heidelberg, germany

I agree with Michael from Ridgewood. Why don't all the potheads of the world find something more productive to do with their lives? Instead of escaping through drugs, why not use that energy to help someone who needs it? God knows, the world is full of opportunities to do something worthwhile.

nancy Lim, olney, United States

Decriminalize drugs. Don't legalize them. For this reason: If it remains illegal, government cannot tax it. Possession would be similar to a parking or traffic citation. The big thing is, we do not want government in the business of relying upon tax revenues from it. It becomes power.

Edward Holman, Dallas, Texas, USA

Legalize production in Mexico and tax the Overlords, tax the drugs too that will be sold at pharmacies. The US demand doesn't cause these problems, Mexico's ineptitude at solving the issue is the cause.

John R, Los Angeles, CA, USA

High time to decriminalize drugs particularly in the U.S. So long as you're not harming someone else remember that you own you and are entitled to put in/on your body whatever you'd like to. Such is the benefit of a free person in a free society. Anything less is bondage, serfdom.

David, Atlanta, US

Perhaps Fabian can point to his own country of Germany as an example of what the United States can do to curb its appetite for hedonism. Marxism is not an option so we might look at the history of Germany and her solutions she had for those who committed crimes as they did in the twentieth century

Ken Blatchford, ALBUQUERQUE, USA

Corrupt inefficient government operations are what is responsible for the human tide from Mexico. This is just one more example, and it's nothing new.

Stephen Martin , Santa Monica, CA. ,

Legalizing drugs in this country would go a long way towards ending this in our country and in Mexico

Chris, Winston-Salem, NC,

If you use illegal drugs you are contributing to this problem. It's as simple as that. These murderous drug kingpins exist because of the demand created for their product in countries like the US. You CAN do something about this simply buy not buying or consuming illegal drugs.

Michael, Ridgewood, United States

If prohibition was repealed these problems woudn't exist.

Fabian, Essen, Germany

It is a part of American culture that creates this propensity for an insatiable drug appetite. The demand is what creates the supply. We must address the Mexican issue with this in mind and approach the problem on two fronts. 1) change our own culture's hedonistic values. 2) Control immigration.

TS, Daytona Beach, Forida, USA

MX has been ruled by the elite class for so long that corruption is the only viable source of income for those struggling to survive in this failed country. The insatiable appetite for power and money by a select few has allowed this to happen. It is now out of control and in the hands of true evil.

El Õ¿Õ¬, Laredo, TX , USA

I am sure that Mexico does have many good people,but all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing.Apparently these good people are cowards. Rather then run across the border stay and fight for your country. Carol Illinois, U.S.A.

carol hanson, lansing, USA

It's tough living here. We hardly ever go out, except on special occasions and even then, there's always a fear that gangsters are going to show up, shoot, rob or kidnap. The military patrols the streets but you never hear of them capturing anyone; they do however search random cars and steal stuff.

Rafael, Juarez, Mexico

I will worry about crime in Mexico the moment the crime statistics in the US fall below those of Mexico. In the meantime, the USA and its people continue to be violent, they tend to absorb violent entertainment without second thought, and continue illegal killing wars for profit in other countries.

Greg, Bremerton, USA

Hey Paul, and other Americans, I hate to let you down but there will be no North American Union. Canada does not want anything to do with you crazy Americans. Never!

John , Edmonton,

The Mexican government alone will not be able to stop this problem. Send in a Navy SEAL team, give them month, and you'll see a drop in crime. I guarantee it.

Chris, Chicago, USA

Hey Chris Ayres... It's Colombia, not Columbia...

Matt Meader, Seal Beach, USA

2,700 Mexican die just so Americans don't have to lower the demand for cocaine. If drugs were legal, the violence would stop. Instead of the US giving billion of dollars to Mexico, we could use the tens of billions spent each year in America to slow the trafficing of drugs to educate our children.

Mikey, San Antonio, USA

Just who is buying the stuff. US money funds every dime of the traffic. If the US would address the problem of usage then all this would go away. There has to be some form of leagalization and control to take the supply problem out of the hands of these drug lords.

Rick W, Atlantic City,

It is naive to think that allowing the Mexican citizenry to arm itself would bring this lawlessness under control. It is also naive to think that it would not provide a real benefit to the law-abiding people as well as a real deterrent to crime in armed
communities. Criminals fear armed citizens.

JD Dyess, Round Rock, USA

Douglas Manchester, you are extremely naive to think that citizens with weapons can clean up Mexico. How could they possibly do this when the army cannot? If a Mexican points a gun at a drug dealer he, and possibly his entire family, will be wiped out forthwith.


Richard Ward, Lopez, USA

To me, it shows the drug lords are increasingly desparate as they resort to these types of tactics. The battle will climax and good will eventually prevail. There are far more good people in Mexico than corrupt people.

Boddles, Dallas, USA

Mexico is well on its way to becoming a failed state. The USG is a long-time enabler, having been a willing safety valve for Mexico for many, many years.

22 year career in US Immigration law enforcement left me with few illusions. Unlike our so-called "leadership".

It's going to be a rough ride

Thomas Casey, Buffalo WY, US

@Richard - I agree! Mexico has very "tough" gun laws, kind of like DC where only the criminals have guns.
If Mexican citizens were allowed to be armed THEY could do the cleanup instead of the corrupt cops doing nothing.

Second Amendment rights are critical to a lawful country!

Douglas, Manchester, USA

Hey Matt in Tampa,

We'll have that kind of action up here as soon as they implement the North American Union.

Paul, Baltimore, MD USA,

We need to deport illegal aliens with skills (plumbers, carpenters, & electricians) to Iraq and Afghanistan to build new communitiies. We also need to set up a "cop swap" whereby the Coalletion trained Iraqi LEO's are used in Mexico, and the Mexican LEO's are used in Iraq.

Ron, Appalachia,

Black market anarchy is clearly the result of outlawing high demand (if very dangerous) drugs.

But it is unclear whether the world would be better off if we legalized narcotics and made them available like we do alcohol.

Either way, there we be much pain and death until demand is addressed.

Parker, Seattle, USA

Some people want to annex this country to solve our immigration problem? It's like saying "I'll take that cancerous malignant tumor and move it to my brain - I'll be able to control it better" -

William Bedloe, Washington DC,

The open borders policy (for mexicans only) defacto in force by a corrupt US Gov't that panders to illegal alien criminals will only insure this behavior perpetuates. We already have these same druglords kidnapping people off the streets of Southern California and taking them back to Mexico.

Julie Scott, Chula Vista, United States

@Rishard, San Diego, USA:

Rishard, your comment just made my day! What about legalizing drugs to solve this issue? Or, wait: How about declaring decapitation a national tradition and natural right of every law abiding citizen; Problem solved!!

Sven, Germany, Europe

David in San Diego, I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, the most corrupt countries all have problems with trying to improve a troubled economy. Another pt, Mex is next to the largest economy in the world (US) but they still can't seem to use this better improve their own econ. condition.

tod, Matsuyama, Japan

Let's have wide open boarders, instead of pourous ones. We can have this kind oif action up here in the states!

Matt, Tampa,

When will Mex get it's head out of the sand and legalize gun ownership for law abiding citizens?

Rishard, San Diego, USA

That's what I like about Mex tourism. Nice walk along the beaches and you could bump up against any body.

Eugene, heidelberg, germany

Well, as I always say, "Enjoy your 'Robin Hood'.

That's why the U.S.A. doesn't have this kind of crime, we ALL have guns, we will shoot to kill, and they will die in droves!!

Very little kidnapping, homicide, almost acceptable, though homicide includes self-defense.

James, SF Bay, U.S.A.,

Mexico has lost its soul. There is no rule of law and thugs rule the day. I long ago vowed that I wouldn't set foot there ever again. I won't support such a corrupt place with my tax dollars.

Kelly, Houston, USA

I live in San Diego -- just 15 miles north of Tijuana. I NEVER go there.
As a lawyer, I happened to be in court a couple of weeks ago, and saw criminal sentencing. It was all illegal aliens being sentenced for serious crimes -- including crimes against persons.
We need an impenetrable border wall.

David, San Diego, USA

TimesOnline USA

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Saturday, August 30, 2008

ANCYL turns on Motlanthe

Say it with a sting.....

ANCYL turns on Motlanthe
2008-8-30 22:26
The divisions within the ANC faction that threw its weight behind embattled party leader Jacob Zuma have spilt into the open.
The ANC Youth League (ANCYL), considered kingmakers in the party, has told ANC deputy president Kgalema Motlanthe not to behave as if Zuma is "no more".

Motlanthe's face-off with the ANCYL is the clearest form of division in the camp, which was united in its bid to oust President Thabo Mbeki as ANC leader.

This could lead to the marginalisation of Motlanthe, who was considered an alternative president should Zuma fail in his bid to avoid the wrath of the law.

The stand-off stemmed from Motlanthe's statements that the ANCYL, party leaders and tripartite alliance partners should respect the judiciary and desist from attacking institutions meant to prop up the country's fledgling democracy.

This went against the mass of Zuma supporters, who said the judiciary was counter-revolutionary, persecuted Zuma for more than seven years and should be forced to drop the corruption and fraud charges against him.

Motlanthe's statements also came in the wake of a decision by the SA Communist Party central committee to seek a "political solution" to the charges brought against Zuma by the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA).

Returning fire with fire, the ANCYL said Motlanthe behaved like a "paragon of political correctness who is beyond reproach", appeared to have a "hotline" to the media, unleashed "unmandated attacks", had a political agenda, and behaved as if he was already president of the party.

"Going around affirming the independence of the criminal justice system on the case of the ANC president is worrisome. A political case can only require a political solution," said ANCYL spokesperson Floyd Shivambu.

Suggesting Motlanthe would not say a word against Mbeki when he was ANC president, Shivambu said: "He was not as assertive as he's becoming recently.

"It looks like there's a new-found energy to speak on issues. He had the space and time to articulate and re-assert his authority as secretary-general of the ANC, but he did not do that."

SACP general secretary Blade Nzimande, in an interview with City Press, said many people were angry at how Zuma was treated and only a political solution could pull the country back from the brink of disaster.

When he was asked why a political review should involve the NPA, which is a legal constitutional structure tasked with enforcing the law, Nzimande said the NPA put itself in a "political corner" and its "conduct has been political".

Asked if a political solution would not prejudice Zuma further, given his protestations that he was not guilty of the charges he faces, Nzimande said "nothing will prejudice Zuma further".

He said the arguments by "latter-day defenders of the Constitution", such as Kader Asmal and Raymond Suttner, that the case should just be put to Zuma and he should answer to it, conveniently overlooked the "blatant manipulation of Zuma's rights. What is the point of having a Bill of Rights? This [if countenanced] will be the rule of the jungle".

Nzimande did not mention Motlanthe by name, but he said the SACP, Cosatu and the ANC would work even harder to ensure the case against Zuma was dropped.

The SA Democratic Teachers Union in KwaZulu-Natal last week called for the charges to be dropped and the ANC in eThekwini took to the streets, demanding that the case be struck from the roll.

A member of the national working committee said: "Motlanthe is getting power-drunk. He creates the impression that all of us are a mad mob and that only he is a saviour, the sole voice of reason, and that he's better than all of us.

"This is the same mistake that Mbeki, in his power-drunkenness, made and we showed him the door.

"Perhaps the problem is that Motlanthe spends too much time with Mbeki and is advised by Mbeki loyalists such as Ebrahim Rasool," said the source.

When asked if the exchanges had done irreparable damage, the source said: "The truth is that the Youth League, and also many of us, love Motlanthe even when we take pain from him."

He said future relations would depend on Motlanthe's reaction.

Joe Teffo, a political analyst with the University of Limpopo, said on Saturday that Motlanthe was a moderating voice in a climate where belligerence had come to characterise some of the people and structures that claimed to support Zuma.

"In the process, they are doing more damage to the ANC and to Zuma's cause. It was always bound to happen that at one stage they would lock horns with Motlanthe."

Teffo said the destruction of democratic institutions by the Zuma group would eventually harm them and make it difficult for Zuma to hit the ground running, were he to become president.

Professor Adam Habib, from the University of Johannesburg, concurred. He said he was surprised that the league would publicly criticise Motlanthe in the "harsh manner" that it did.

"These kinds of statements create an impression that the party's leadership is not coherent, that it's not a cohesive leadership, and that is a dangerous message to send out during an election period," he said, adding it was too early to tell if Motlanthe's stance on issues could harm his presidential ambitions in the long run.

The ANCYL will meet the party's top six officials on Monday.

"We are waiting patiently to understand the intentions and agenda of the deputy president in attacking the Youth League in the media," said Shivambu.
City Press

Comments by Sonny

The 'little boyz' should be disciplined by their Daddies, before it is too late, for SA.


Calls to privatise Eskom to ease power crisis

Say it with a sting.....

August 28, 2008, 20:45

The Free Market Foundation (FMF) has asked for the privatisation of the energy market for the electricity crisis to be solved.

FMF Director Leon Louw says Eskom alone is not to blame for the electricity crisis. He blamed Ministers responsible for energy policy and the National Energy Regulator of South Africa (Nersa). He says Nersa imposed conditions that kept competitors out of the market. Its licensing system meant that companies with existing surplus capacity could not help by selling electricity.

Meanwhile, Eskom says it's optimistic the new campaign to conserve energy in South Africa - by replacing millions of conventional light globes with energy-saving ones - will soon begin to yield positive results. They plan to swap one ordinary light globe in each household in the country for an energy-saving one for free.

Eskom says four of the familiar light bulbs use the same amount of electricity as one of the new fluorescent light bulbs. Eskom's managing director of corporate services, Steve Lennon, says their target is to save 750 megawatts of electricity in households.

Eskom plans to put energy saving bulbs in homes (August 28, 2008, 08:15)
Eskom shuts down Koeberg unit (August 22, 2008, 15:45)
Public Protector abandons load-shedding probe (August 20, 2008, 18:45)
SA govt helps poor access energy (August 17, 2008, 10:30)
Another power increase shock for SA consumers (August 12, 2008, 20:45)

Eskom home page

The Free Market Foundation has asked for the privatisation of the energy market.

Comments by Sonny

What about all the money (our money), the government has pumped into Eskom.
Is it going to be used for 'performance bonuses?'
It is becoming a regular occurrence, that we have blackouts around Midnight, which lasts for an hour or two.
We even had our water cut and the excuse given by City Water was that, it was an 'electrical problem!'
Oh, maybe we should have blamed City Power for the break down.
Does the tail wag the dog here?

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Vodacom buys Gateway units

Say it with a sting.....

August 29, 2008

South African mobile operator Vodacom, joint owned by Telkom and Vodafone, has agreed to buy most of African network and satellite services firm Gateway for an enterprise value of $675-million.

Vodacom said the deal would boost its presence in Nigeria, Africa's biggest mobile phone market, and improve its offering of converged communication services across Africa. The deal does not include privately-owned Gateway's broadcasting business.

Business Report IOL

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Say it with a sting.....

Hunt on for cop killers
28/08/2008 21:11 - (SA)

Johannesburg - A police officer died in hospital after robbers shot him at a shop in Actonville on Thursday, Johannesburg police said.

The on-duty officer walked in on a robbery at the shop at around 11:50 intending to buy cigarettes.

"He was shot in the upper body as he stepped towards the counter. He was critically wounded," said spokesperson Superintendent Eugene Opperman.

Opperman said the robbers stole the officer's official pistol, money, cigarettes and a cellphone before running away.

"The officer was rushed to hospital while a large contingent of police officers saturated large parts of Actonville in an attempt to flush out the suspects," he said.

No arrests had been made.

The Gauteng provincial commissioner, Perumal Naidoo, expressed his condolences to the family and colleagues of the deceased.

News 24.Com

Top cop killed in ambush

Cop killed as he quits hostel

Dbn cop robbed and killed

Cop killed during robbery

Arrest 21yrs after cops killed



Say it with a sting.....

Couple shot, daughter raped
30/08/2008 08:03 - (SA)

Johannesburg - A couple returning home from a holiday was accidentally shot and wounded by police in Alberton, Gauteng police said on Friday.

Superintendent Eugene Opperman said the couple walked into a robbery at their Meyersdal home on Thursday night about 23:00.

At the time of their arrival, five armed men had tied up their son and took turns to rape their daughter.

The couple saw that something was wrong in their garage.

They found the car loaded with appliances, and while still in the garage the robbers opened fire on them, Opperman said.

During the commotion someone pressed the panic button, a security company phoned the house, heard a woman screaming and alerted the police.

Two groups of police officers went to the scene. On arrival the first group was shot at, and while taking cover, a car drove at high speed from the garage towards the second group of police officers. The car had its lights off.

"Police opened fire on it, thinking it was the robbers fleeing. After the car stopped the couple was found wounded inside the car."

The couple in their 40s were taken to hospital where they were reported to be in stable conditions on Friday.

Opperman said the robbers scaled the wall and broke a window to gain access to the house at about 21:00.

Once inside they tied up the son, in his 20s, and ransacked the house. His sister, also in her 20s, walked in on the robbery and was also tied up and gang-raped.

Police recovered a stolen 9mm pistol, clothes belonging to the suspects and some of the goods stolen from the house.

The robbers scaled the wall, fled into a nearby koppie and disappeared, he said.

No arrest had been made.


Comments by Sonny

Min Charles Nqakula, get ready to pay out 'hard cash' again!

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Shattered Dreams

Say it with a sting.....

Shattered dreams?
11:00AM, Friday, 29 Aug, 2008

Forty five years ago, Martin Luther King Jnr made his 'I have a dream' speech.

"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today."

Forty five years later, to the day, Barack Obama accepts the the Democratic Party's White House nomination to run for President of the United States.

No biggie here except that Barack is a black man. So what is my point? Listening to the news coverage of the presidential race, every snippet starts with pointing out the fact that Barack is black. Besides this being pretty obvious to those with colour tv, I just have to wonder - Why after all this time, in the most free democracy (if there is such a thing) is it still an issue? I thought that character, policy and values was what is important in who will hold the most influential job in the world.

Seems like I am wrong and stupid - but you lot knew that already.
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Snooze post.
10:13AM, Thursday, 28 Aug, 2008
So, let's get back to the wedding so I can bore the heck out of you. Count yourselves lucky, I was going to do a political post!

(Another bad shot by me)

My newly-wed sprogs must have been the most relaxed to-be-weds I have ever seen. The reason for this is that all they wanted for their day, was the immediate family and loving friends to witness and join them in celebrating what the day was all about. No pomp and ceremony. Just good old-fashioned down-to-earth exchanging of vows, declaration of love and a heck of a good shinding afterwards.

As soon as I heard the song chosen for the wedding march, I knew that they would achieve their goal.
My gorgeous DIL walked down the aisle to U2's 'All I Want Is You'. Yes, I had to dig out my tissues! The Minister was Not Yet Errant Son's 'not the girlfriend's' Dad who dispensed with a sermon and instead blessed them with deeply spiritual and loving words that had all of us snivelling. Eish, that man is a true mensch! Love ya, Neil Oosthuizen!

The photos were a hoot. Oldest Errant Son's teacher from grade 7 and our friend, now a photographer, bullied us and we bullied him into some rather unusual shots. He has promised to photoshop my treble chins and k@k hair! Thanks, Emil Bosch.

The newly weds entered the room to Billy Idol's 'White Wedding' and we got the party started. First dance was to Frank Sinatra's 'Fly Me To The Moon' - and yes, I did the dance thingie with Maddad and Dad of the bride. This codger can still lang-arm. OES and I threw our names away by doing our 'Happy Dance' while Maddad secretly hoped my feet would start aching and I would sit down and behave. Hehe - no such luck! The problem with knowing the sprogs friends well - geez, I've fed most of them - is that they keep dragging you onto the dance floor. Even Maddad and the bride's Dad put down their cigars (yes, Voooos - they were Cubans) and boogied. Thanks Vincent for a great playlist.

Ah, there was even time to nosh! Thank you Valverde for a delightful spread and amazing waitrons.

Do's and Dont's
Do wear comfy shoes - the codgers' bunions and fallen arches take a beating
Don't give Madmom shooters - she has years of experience and will outlast you
Do supply lots of Johnny Black - Vooos's brothers from other Mothers and the youngsters seem to favour this drink
Don't try and catch the bouquet if you are on crutches - you are bound to miss
Don't catch the garter and wear it around your noggin if your band is well-known (I now have photos to blackmail you with)
But most importantly - Dont' sweat the small stuff and Do realise that a wedding is not about the fuss and frills - it is about witnessing the union of two people who deeply love and respect each other and creating memories of that special day. That is exactly what we achieved.

Okay, wake up now. I'll excite you with some politics tomorrow!

And for a giggle RIC007GP


Friday, August 29, 2008

Friendship Comfort Zone

Say it with a sting.....

Old Timers Zone

Suppose we all look forward to a comfort zone
Miles apart from the old age home
Be us sailor, soldier, pilot or cop
All friends until the gravy train comes to a stop
We take advantage of the situation
Relying on all members and the whole nation
To become president of a friendship society
Feeling great and almighty

We create a nest egg
Not relying on others and not having to beg
We treat the association as our own
Spending members cash without a moan
We even change the constitution
All our faithful friends added to the ‘inclusion’

When our term of duty is through
We will have nothing better to do
But to ponder over our past
Hoping our friendship and money will last!

Servo Per Amikeco


Thursday, August 28, 2008

SA Immune to 9/11 Attack

Say it with a sting.....


Well.... if that happens, there can be no comparison whatsoever.

That's because in S.A we are much better prepared for these kinds of attacks.

No. 1. We do not construct exaggerated elevated high-rise buildings these days;
squatter camps and duplexes are the order of the day.

No 2. We ALL get stuck in traffic in the morning, so at 8.45am the buildings
would still be empty.

No. 3. Our prestigious fire fighters and police officers will do their utmost
not to get to the spot in time, and will arrive loud and clear just after
everything is over, so there will be no casualties amongst them.

No. 4. Johannesburg International Airport would surely have fouled up the
terrorist's plans by delaying the planes.

No. 5. A South African would never let a terrorist hijack a plane. He would tell
him "Jou ma se p..", beat him up, rob him and the word would spread about how
bad he got it, quicker than a CNN/BBC broadcast. (later, he will also be used
for police dog training).

No. 6. A South African would not have used his cell phone to call home (NO
WAYS); more efficiently he will rather send a "Please call me". A cell phone is
used to defend oneself. A REAL South African would have hit the terrorist over
the head with it...then steal his terrorist weapons and sell it for dagga money


If a terrorist ever lived in South Africa for one year and one year only, he
would have been robbed and molested so many times that he would have given up
and gone back home a long time ago...then get shot in the taxi, get robbed of
his passport and credit cards, attempt to flee the gunfire, and get arrested by
the cops later for vagrancy.

You see in South Africa , we are well prepared.

We are proudly South African!

Author Assassinated


Recognition of Prior Learning

Say it with a sting.....

Recognition of Prior Labours

Yes, recognition of prior learning
Is definitely not cast in stone
The more you have learned
The less was recorded
Some of your achievements were of valour
Others were seen as despicable
Those caught on camera
Are most likely to be held against you
It is not for the audience to define you
But for the masses to ridicule you

Then comes your levels of intelligence
Again, not what is recorded
But rather more on the basis of what's gossiped
E*** eyes control e*** ears and tongues
Horrible groups persecute innocent individuals
Be it ideology, religion, culture or history

The powers that be ...
Are the powers that want to remain!
Who is qualified to judge a genius?

Copyright ©2008 William Ernest Cox


Wednesday, August 27, 2008

The Zuma debate: No deal!

Say it with a sting.....

Aug 26 2008 00:00 To get out of our political pickle as a nation, ANC president Jacob Zuma needs to be liberated from his. There are two paths to take: either he gets his day in court or there is a deal to get him off the hook. Increasingly, consensus in the ruling tripartite alliance, the private sector and parts of the intelligentsia are building towards the need for a political deal of some sort. Here, two players on
both sides of the debate argue for and against

Replay : Richard Calland: Counterpoint

Scorpions survivor Willie Hofmeyer was seen recently having a quiet drink in a Pretoria bar with none other than Moe Shaik, the man whom one politically astute friend of mine described recently as "the man who likes to think he knows what Zuma is thinking before Zuma has even had the thought himself". I am reliably informed that there is even a piece of paper which may well yet prove to be the basis of the deal that seals Zuma's passage to the Union Buildings, Scorpions or no Scorpions.

It is hard to escape the conclusion that this piece of paper, or whatever it in time spawns, will be a pivotal moment for South Africa's democracy. Not just because it will seal the fate of one man. Nor just because of what it will tell us about modern South Africa's attitude to the relationship between politics and the rule of law. But because of what it will tell us about South African society's willingness to put pragmatism above principle.

There are enormous risks, which should not be discounted lightly. Nelson Mandela went out of his way in his recent birthday speech in Pretoria to remind people of the fundamental importance of democratic institutions, of which the rule of law is perhaps the greatest. The implication was clear: undermining them threatens the constitutional enterprise on which this country embarked 14 years ago.

Since prim clarion calls to defend the rule of law are in themselves insufficiently persuasive in the face of the heavy politics of the moment, I have been desperately racking my brains for respectable and plausible arguments in favour of an agreement or arrangement that will permit Zuma to escape the very thing that for so long he argued he most earnestly sought, namely, his day in court. (While my brief is to make the case "against", to do so it is necessary to be clear about what is the best case "for".) But in this respect I have been found wanting.

I assume, however, that no one is simply suggesting that the criminal case be dropped (assuming, in turn, that the court does not accede to the request to strike out the prosecution). Thus, as a preliminary point, it is important to be clear about what exactly is being proposed. Is it a plea bargain? Or is it an agreement that forms some sort of wider amnesty process?

A plea bargain is justified where the prosecution takes a considered view that it is unlikely to succeed with a higher charge and that it would be wise to accept a plea of guilty for a lesser charge and, therefore, the public interest in criminal justice is served by such a bargain.

But notice the crucial point: it does not amount to a total collapse; Zuma would still need to plead guilty to something. Everything would hinge, then, on precisely what. For much of the first part of this year I assumed that a plea bargain would be reached that involved a plea of guilty to a crime sufficiently serious to be imprisonable (albeit with a suspended sentence as a part of the deal), thus preventing Zuma from becoming president.

But I have come to appreciate the extent to which political momentum has built up behind him now, to the point where, with the grand prize tantalisingly near at hand, neither he nor his most ardent supporters would accept this. Hence, a plea to a very minor offence is presumably one of the options now on the table.

What is the justification for such a deal? Where and how is the public interest served? If the argument is that Zuma's prosecution is so unfair, so tainted, that he is the victim of an egregious establishment conspiracy, then surely the best place to prove it as such is in court, through the process of tested evidence.

Unproven, the complaint of unfairness will not represent a convincing case for the deal. The wobbly basis for the plea bargain will always rankle with many, undermining public confidence in a Zuma presidency and continuing to blight his reputation.

Which brings one to the idea of a wider amnesty process. Amnesty is a subjugation of the normal rule of law. It requires, therefore, an Act of Parliament, such as the Truth and Reconciliation Act. Arguably, the amnesty element in the TRC process failed because an agreement to exchange amnesty for truth tends to be a notoriously hard one to enforce fully. Those who give the amnesty -- society at large -- tend to get the short end of the bargain. Consequently, there is a lack of "closure"; stalemate about the past leads to a stalemate about the future.

Instead of pursuing justice, South Africa may instead get stuck -- and not just with a president whose probity and fitness for public office has been so seriously questioned.

In any case what is the big-picture justification for such an extreme course? In the case of the TRC it was at least clear: it was a major element of the historic compromise that enabled a largely peaceful transition to democracy.

Nothing as remotely noble is available now. Unless one is prepared to buy into the idea that Zuma is a leader we just have to have at all costs, even at the expense of the rule of law. Whereas Mandela went to great lengths to demonstrate his personal accountability as president to the rule of law -- in one case uncomplainingly enduring several hours standing in the witness box -- the new ANC leadership appears to be saying "our president's internal election victory at Polokwane puts him above the law"; or at least that the law must bend to the will of the 60% of the delegates who voted for Zuma.

In which case, the ANC really is unrecognisable from the organisation that carried the torch of liberation into those negotiations in the early 1990s -- an organisation that was always greater than any individual, even Mandela, and to whom the "cult of personality" was anathema.

Thus, a deal that succumbs to such a cult of personality will represent a victory of fearfulness over courage. Anxious about its tenuous social consensus and unable to deal with the true sources of the lack of social cohesion head on, South Africa thus opts for what Kole Omotoso calls a "culture of timidity".

Interestingly, the proponents of the deal are not just Zuma spin doctors and apparatchiks, but business leaders and veteran commentators. It is as if some people have convinced themselves that to save the rule of law in the long run it must be sequestered to the political force majeure of the short term.

This is a profoundly weak intellectual position to support; it is as politically inane as it is legally anaemic. At the very moment when critical thinking is needed, it is being abandoned in favour of a rhetoric that is as ill-informed as it is dangerous -- as Raymond Suttner noted in a brilliant article two Sundays ago in City Press, during the course of which he posed no fewer than 16 questions about the progressive legitimacy of the Zuma "alliance".

On the rule of law there is a new spirit of pragmatism and opportunism abroad at present that is thoroughly unattractive. "Political hooliganism", as one of the country's most eminent human rights lawyers is naming it.

As a trade unionist, ANC secretary general Gwede Mantashe should know better than to undermine public confidence in the Constitutional Court. Re-reading Clive Thomson's chapter on Trade unions using the law in the 1988 book, Law and Social Practice, I am reminded of the fact that even in the most testing of times trade unions were able to use the courts to win important victories for workers.

A progressive perspective of the rule of law regards it as a crucial strand in the overall fight for justice, alongside popular struggle and mobilisation -- a combined strategy of the sort that the Treatment Action Campaign has been so persistently determined to muster -- and a site of political contestation that should not be vacated without a fight.

Threatening judges to win superficial short-term gains is a dangerous game; be careful what you wish for. The personal attacks on individual members of the Constitutional Court are outrageous; these are people of the highest integrity, who made great sacrifices themselves in the name of freedom and whose approach to crafting a progressive jurisprudence is widely admired here and internationally.

Yes, it is shameful that Irene Grootboom died in the same miserable conditions from which the Constitutional Court sought to protect her in their groundbreaking judgement in 2000. But whose fault is that? Not the court's, that is for sure. If you are looking for "counter-revolutionaries", Mantashe must look a little closer to home.

The liberal left is confounded. Weary of the neurosis and obscurantism of Mbekism and profoundly disappointed by the failure to make any serious inroads into levels of inequality, one is now faced by a belligerent bandwagon whose personality cult threatens to wholly undermine any progressive credentials it or any of its members may have.

The grotesque and opportunistic posturing over the courts is the latest and best example of this; a pragmatic deal that would "liberate JZ so as to liberate us all" would be the next and, because of the damage it could do, perhaps the last -- a choice the country may come to regret. To advance and protect the Constitution, something must be done to stabilise the politics of this second transition. But an opaque "grand deal" -- whether a plea bargain or an amnesty -- is not the answer. Not, at least, if South Africa wishes to instil a culture of accountability ahead of a culture of impunity.

M & G

Comments by Sonny

So what are these 'theorists' actually saying?
Throw in the towel and let a corrupt president rule SA?
Thus, avoiding bloodshed?
If cultural cleansing is what these thugs want, then let the games begin!
By giving up our Constitution we are giving up our right to existence anyways.
Do we want the Shaik's and akin to govern this country with impunity?
It is actually a case of the 'Communists' versus the "Island Boyz."